Reyn: The Slow Twilight has a very dark sound, something that usually seems very artificial these days. But you guys did it with such authenticity and passion. Talk about the inspiration and the concepts behind this record.
Zilla: I’m not sure what you mean by the “artificial” sound that’s out today, so I’m not sure how we pulled it off so well.  I mean I felt weird putting this album in June!  It felt like it should drop in early February when it’s frigid here in Philly and there’s no sports to take your mind off things haha!  Lyrically, I just assumed a character ’cause Douglas would send me these beats named “Weak Stomach” or “Eric Lindros” and I had to figure out what that meant and how to write about these things while still being interesting.  We knocked out the song “High Noon” and it felt like the beginning of something new and terrifying so I figured we should do a whole album together.  Conceptually on my end, I just let the pen ride on the paper–throw a bunch a crap at the wall and see what sticks while still trying to be on topic of whatever the hell “Dead Queens” meant.
Blurry: At first, I was just trying to make some good beats for Zilla to spit over, because I started out as a fan of his work. Then, it got to a point where we had enough songs that showcased Zilla as a spitter, so I wanted to challenge him as a songwriter. I like titling my beats, so I would put titles on them according to the feel. I had no idea that Zilla would take my titles and write around them. I started making beats like “Dead Queens” and “Sharpen Their Teeth” for him to step outside of himself creatively, and was floored by how spectacularly he rose to the occasion.

Reyn: I am not completely familiar, but the album is linked together using clips from the 1961 film, Blast of Silence. Why was this movie employed for the album?
Zilla: We talked early on about making the album like GZA’s “Liquid Swords” with movie clips to pull everything together and make sense of an otherwise grim and unsettling rap album.  And it was up to me to find what movie exactly that would be!  Once I had “Blast of Silence” on my Netflix and watched it, I was getting goosebumps.  And then I knew immediately that the story of the character in that movie fit the story of my character on the album, which I wasn’t even planning or executing.  It just came together organically and made perfect sense when it was all put together in post production.  It was frickin EERIE!  Watch the movie–it’s a masterpiece.  And you’ll understand that I’m not crazy.

Reyn: How did the recording process go? Were you guys working together in the studio on this?
Zilla: Me and Douglas have never met in person.  Hell, we’ve never even talked on the phone!  I got my own studio and he would email me the beats with the titles and some loose concepts to work within.  Of the 12 tracks, I think I only changed the name of 1 and that was “Four Speed Interlude”.  I’m a producer and engineer with my company Beat Garden Entertainment–this is our 8th official release in 3 years, so I don’t need anyone leaning over my shoulder every step of the way.  It was good to work like that because Douglas would give feedback or make his tweaks once I would email the songs over to him.  He gave me the space to do whatever I wanted, and his music and song titles challenged me to do things I’ve never done before.  And his patience helped me create the best concepts–some songs I did in 20 minutes, others took me 3 months.
Blurry: As Zilla said, we’ve only contacted each other through e-mail. Even through e-mail, 5 O’Clock Shadowboxers is the first time I’ve ever been a part of a serious collaborative project. I’ve been a solo artist through a couple of different mediums for years, and there were certainly growing pains I had to go through in order for this album to come to fruition. As solo artists, I think both Zilla and I are both comfortable with working on our own kitchens and then bringing it to the table.

Reyn: After giving the album several spins, I can’t help but notice the great chemistry you guys have. How long have you been working together? When did you decide to put an album like this out?
Zilla: We’d never worked before until he just randomly sent me the beat for “High Noon” in late 2007.  After we did that and got outstanding feedback from people across the board, it just felt right to do something more than random one-off tracks.  First it was gonna be an EP but the beats kept coming, and each one was better than the one before it.  It was a really organic process.  And that’s my favorite way to work on music and collaborate.  No deadlines, no catering to certain crowds, no pressure to outdo anything.  Just work.
Blurry: Thanks for the compliment. It’s astounding how well Zilla and I came together on this one, considering the fact that we’re on two separate coasts and have never met. As I alluded to before, I had no idea there was even going to be a 5 O’Clock Shadowboxers. In 2007, I just sent “High Noon” to Zilla (which is a straight “Speak to the Wind” by a band called Spindrift, which I have to point out, because I literally did nothing to the song to make it into a beat, I just sent it to Zilla wholesale), because over the course of that year, I had become such a big fan of his work. To be wholeheartedly honest, this project came about primarily because I was selfish and wanted more Zilla Rocca tunes.

Reyn: Zilla, I got to say, the lyrics are on-point. Talk about your inspiration for the rhymes on the album.
Zilla: I really appreciate that, man.  This album is definitely me paying homage to Dose One, Tom Waits, Aesop Rock, Ghostface, Geechi Suede from Camp Lo, Andre 3000.  I’m just drawn to cats who create a world for you to walk in everytime they get on a mic.  It’s not just spittin or just braggin.  It could be abstract or scary or crime riddled or fly and fresh.   It’s a mood more than anything else, a story or situation that you feel and see.  And that’s what I tried to do on my end when I got these beats because they were very specific.  I couldn’t write about getting paid to “No Resolution” haha!

Reyn: To say the least, the raps are witty. Do you ever worry that maybe your audience just isn’t capable of understanding some of the messages?
Zilla: I remember reading this interview with David Simon who did “The Wire” and “The Corner” and “Homicide,” arguably 3 of the most gripping and moving pieces of work to ever hit TV and the bookshelves based on the story of urban strife.  He said he writes in slang and local lexicon because that’s what the material demands in order to be authentic, and if the average joe watching TV or buying books at Borders can’t grasp that, than f*** them!  It wasn’t meant for them, and it would be doing a disservice to the work by cutting corners to make it tamer, or more watered down just to grab an extra percentage of audience share.  So even though his shows haven’t gotten “American Idol” ratings, no one will argue if you say that “The Wire” is the best television show of the past 20 years. I think the audience for this record will get it and love it.  It won’t do Rick Ross numbers but we’ll be cool haha!
Blurry: I was always taught to assume that your audience is smarter than you are. Furthermore, I love rappers who are smarter than me! There were definitely some Zilla punchlines that sent me to Wikipedia, and I love him for it.

Reyn: One of my favorite joints, both lyrically and production wise is “Eric Lindros”. Obviously that song isn’t really about the hockey player; what is the message behind that record?
Zilla: The message is about the disposable nature of rappers, how they’re hot today and gone tomorrow and what they are willing to do in order to get that opportunity.  The Philadelphia Flyers traded like 9 dudes to get Eric Lindros and never won a cup with him.  The guys they gave up to the Quebec Nordics (who later became the Colorado Avalanche) helped THAT team win a cup.  So the Flyers risked everything at that moment to win a chip right away, whereas the Avalanche got a bevy of options that slowly materialized into the same goal.  So “Eric Lindros” is about the decision cats in my bracket are facing doing hip hop: do I keep going slow and steady or put all my chips in and hope I win tomorrow?  It’s like I say in the say, “Eric Lindros, let’s trade the future to blow up!”

Reyn: Blurry, you employ tons of different samples that a lot of people may recognize. Talk about using some of those samples such as a Radiohead, Elliott Smith, or The Unicorns. How does using songs like that benefit your sound?
Blurry: I’ve only recently gotten into the practice of crate-digging, so during the construction of this album, I sampled songs that I like. I don’t know if all kids that are into both indie-rock and rap do this, but for most of my life, I’d hear a non-rap song, regardless of genre, and say to myself, “You know, that would make an ill sample!” And thus, while trying to gain my footing as a beatmaker, I would take that mindset and do my best to turn it into a dope beat. Of course, all of the songs sampled were used solely for the purpose of making a great rap beat, but there are others, like Bright Eyes’ “Lover I Don’t Have to Love” (which I sampled for the outro) which have somewhat of a deep personal significance.

Reyn: Are there any cons to using newer, more recognizable songs?
Zilla: I don’t think so.  The only song that was recognizable to me was “Stay Clean” because I really like Elliott Smith.  Everything else sounded new to me.  This is hip hop–nothing’s sacred!  We’ll sample a metal song that was out 40 years ago or a jazz record that dropped yesterday.  As long as it sounds good, I don’t think most people care where it comes from.
Blurry: My biggest fear is that people will look past the fact that– at least, in my opinion– these are really dope beats, and take this as some sort of hipster-rap novelty record. I suppose you can’t sample Cat Power and The Velvet Underground without people assuming you’re trying to ponder to a certain audience. On the other hand, though, I hope there are some music fans that will be interested in what’s being sampled, and end up seeking out the work of some of the lesser-known groups, like Shearwater or Espers.

Reyn: One of my favorite songs, probably because of my huge love for Elliott Smith, is “Stay Clean”. Talk about working with his dark sound, what did that bring to the record?
Zilla: Elliott Smith’s work was a great juxtaposition.  It’s like what Tom Waits said, “Everyone wants to hear bad news coming from a pretty mouth”.  On my end, I told a real break-up story and delivered in a light hearted, funny way even though what I was saying was all real and actually really screwed up at the time of the writing haha!  So it was a good contrast to the hook of Elliott Smith which is really cryptic and dysfunctional.
Blurry: I think I made that beat right in the middle of the recording of the album, so I feel “Stay Clean” serves as the bridge between the songs where Zilla spits fire and those where Zilla gets into Bob Dylan Storyteller mode. “Stay Clean” is a very real story, but I believe it helped Zilla tap into a different part of his brain, which led to the songs where Zilla stepped into character.

Reyn: Post-The Slow Twilight, what projects do you guys have lined-up?
Zilla: I just post out the remixed version of my mixtape “Bring Me the Head of Zilla Rocca” which dropped last September.  The remix CD is inventively titled “Bring Me the REMIX of Zilla Rocca” in conjunction with 33jones.com 12 remixes from my favorite producers in Philly and beyond.  I’ve finished then gutted then finished AGAIN my proper solo LP “Fall Back Friday” but there’s no set date for it because this project needed the full treatment.  And I’m about to go back in with my brother Nico the Beast to start the second proper Clean Guns LP.
Blurry: On the hip-hop end, I’ve been working on an instrumental album called Legit Punks, and I’ve just started work on a collaborative mixtape with a rapper from Chicago named Alex Ludovico. I’ve also been slowly working on my sophomore album as Fresh Cherries from Yakima– my experimental-folk singer/songwriter project– entitled Honest Kids.

Reyn: Many thanks for coming by, any closing words?
Zilla: I hope everyone checks out the album.  I’m an awful salesman for my own stuff, so yeah…haha!  Live smart, dress sharp, leave your bitch out on bail!
Blurry: Nice guys finish with the last laugh. Kiss your mother and tell her you love her.